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Topic: Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.

Messages (18) Visitors (33499)


marthawatt
Member since 06/22/2005
Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
06/19/2006 / 6:29 pm    #1

I have to say that it seems that the HR department is still something that happens 'once there are enough humans' in a company - and I don't actually think we have an HR department, as such, since we are only a small operation.

I do like the work of Dr. Leif Edvisson on this topic, though. He has an interesting theory: that customers and employees are alike - so marketing and HR should be combined...?

Comments?

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1119477246718
Member since 06/22/2005
Re:Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
06/20/2006 / 7:56 am    #2

>I have to say that it seems that the HR department is still something that happens 'once there are enough humans' in a company - and I don't actually think we have an HR department, as such, since we are only a small operation.
>
>I do like the work of Dr. Leif Edvisson on this topic, though. He has an interesting theory: that customers and employees are alike - so marketing and HR should be combined...?
>
>Comments?

Totally disagree. Marketing is purpose driven (a one to many relationship) while HR is relationship driven (one to one) and built on trust. Like chalk and cheese, masculine and feminine, there is a role for each and one cannot exist effectively without the other. They are completely different competencies and each should be recognised as such. Independence is key to the success of HR and should be respected to tie in all competencies into a cohesive unit. One should never control and or report to the other.

Tony Holmwood

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marthawatt
Member since 06/22/2005
Re:Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
06/20/2006 / 9:53 am    #3

Edvisson's basis for the blending is that both Marketing and HR are about building relationships: the organization to it's customers and the organization to it's employees.

This would require a complete rethink of both departments/areas, but would it be worth it? Business and doing business will certainly change over the next 10, even 5 years.



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1119484766248
Member since 06/22/2005
Re:Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
06/20/2006 / 8:07 pm    #4


Business is still only one of "moving" action orone kind of behaviors of human being, so it's moving and changing by second. Creating and developing is one of the roof of "being existing"? Therefore, it'll be so extremly awfully that we do not act to develope HRM or HR Dept. in an organization. the business development will be also changing quickly.

>Edvisson's basis for the blending is that both Marketing and HR are about building relationships: the organization to it's customers and the organization to it's employees.
>
>This would require a complete rethink of both departments/areas, but would it be worth it? Business and doing business will certainly change over the next 10, even 5 years.
>
>

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1119488617072
Member since 06/22/2005
Re:Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
06/27/2006 / 11:24 pm    #5

>I have to say that it seems that the HR department is still something that happens 'once there are enough humans' in a company - and I don't actually think we have an HR department, as such, since we are only a small operation.
>
>I do like the work of Dr. Leif Edvisson on this topic, though. He has an interesting theory: that customers and employees are alike - so marketing and HR should be combined...?
>
>Comments?

Hr help the organisation to get the best of the talent from the market and makeing strategies to retain them.
It help to create a system and process in the organisation which help the smooth work flow within the organisation.

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1152268400193
Member since 12/31/1969
Re:Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
07/07/2006 / 6:45 am    #6

>I have to say that it seems that the HR department is still something that happens 'once there are enough humans' in a company - and I don't actually think we have an HR department, as such, since we are only a small operation.
>
>I do like the work of Dr. Leif Edvisson on this topic, though. He has an interesting theory: that customers and employees are alike - so marketing and HR should be combined...?
>
>Comments?
very true

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1119471021157
Member since 06/22/2005
Re:Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
07/07/2006 / 10:25 am    #7

>I have to say that it seems that the HR department is still something that happens 'once there are enough humans' in a company - and I don't actually think we have an HR department, as such, since we are only a small operation.
>
>I do like the work of Dr. Leif Edvisson on this topic, though. He has an interesting theory: that customers and employees are alike - so marketing and HR should be combined...?
>
>Comments?

I agree that organizations now need to be continually re-recruiting the employees they have on board, so as to keep the loss of human/intellectual capital from reaching unsustainable levels. And in doing so, also in recruiting new employees, the organization is basically "marketing" itself as an employer to current/prospective employees.

I think there's some overlap in skills between marketing and HR, and that the two can probably benefit from learning from each other. But I think the two need to (1) focus on very different audiences, and (2) are "marketing" very different things. Also, HR is involved in much more than just recruiting/retaining/developing employees....those pesky laws and regs for instance....and requires a knowledge/skill base that is not part of the toolkit of the average marketing dept.

So, HR and marketing learning from each other is a good idea. But, I think combining them is NOT a good idea.



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1151515714811
Member since 12/31/1969
Re:Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
08/02/2006 / 1:41 pm    #8

>I have to say that it seems that the HR department is still something that happens 'once there are enough humans' in a company - and I don't actually think we have an HR department, as such, since we are only a small operation.
>
>I do like the work of Dr. Leif Edvisson on this topic, though. He has an interesting theory: that customers and employees are alike - so marketing and HR should be combined...?
>
>Comments?

Good Grief. Stop trying to combine HR with anything. HR is a discipline in and of itself. HR is not marketing and I couldn't imagine what that combination would look like. Work with the other disciplines in an organization - all of them. I have great difficulty with the fact that HR always seems to get lumped in with finance - yes, putting bodies in seats costs money but it isn't about money. Talk about chalk and cheese - it is like chalk and cheez whiz. HR will never make it to the strategic table if we keep trying to call ourselves something else. We are HR!

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dummy
Member since 05/18/2005
Re: Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
11/07/2006 / 11:44 pm    #9

Dear all,

I found nice comments for this grief.
Though HR and Mkting are part of Mgmt they cant be combined.
They might have common things like interacting with people and trying to know people behaviour but they completely differ in their purpose.The basic purpose of HR is to manage workforce and Mkting is to get business.
The thought process and mind set of these people belonging to two diff depts will be different.
Mkting people only concentrate on their target and HR people,policies and procedures.
If you try to combine these two depts it will be a havoc.

with regards,
Ramakrishna

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VinayChaganti
Member since 11/22/2006
Re: Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
12/05/2006 / 10:50 pm    #10

As long as we perceive, HR Department as something physically existing and being named so, I dont think we'll get to see any such thing until we have a sizeable crowd in the company. But talking about HR as a discipline and its implementation, It is quite possible with any small group, may it be 3 or 300 or any. All it needs is somebody who can strike a balance between task and people orientation.

And coming to HR and Marketing, let us just rethink. Because all of us know that nothing in Management is a Stand alone Funtion. HR can not be seperated from Marketing and Vice versa.

Chaganti

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profsanjeevhota
Member since 12/23/2006
Re: Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
12/23/2006 / 2:24 am    #11

marthawatt

How small is your opeations? The HR dept doesnot just happen.It has to be planned keeping in view the companies business model.It cannot just happen as business cannot just happen.

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fatmabhatti
Member since 12/25/2006
Re: Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
12/29/2006 / 3:53 am    #12

I disagree with this thought . HR is totally different from marketing. The biggest proof is that we dont want to lose our customer at any cost. But on the other hand in case employees organizatios have lots of other choices as well . Now a days a market is full of tallented people so nobody cares to retain the employees.
I think employees are not our customers.

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fatmabhatti
Member since 12/25/2006
Re: Re:Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
12/29/2006 / 3:54 am    #13

jhjhkjhkj

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VinayChaganti
Member since 11/22/2006
Re: Re: Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
01/08/2007 / 10:01 pm    #14

Only for the reason that, You can not replace ORGANISATION SPECIFIC EXPERIENCE with TALENT,
You are generally forced to retain people.
Is this not true... in spite of increasing talent in the market.

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1119485891223
Member since 06/22/2005
Re: Re: Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
01/17/2007 / 12:37 pm    #15

I actually tend to agree with Edvinsson & Malone (the book is titled "Intellectual Capital: Realizing Your Company's True Value").

As stated here, perhaps not all the elements of HR and marketing should merge but some components do work very nicely together. I am surprised that some people in HR cannot see the similarity in audiences between employees/candidates and customers. All start out as prospects that need to be converted to (applicants, employees, sales, etc.). In growth industries -- where talent acquisition and retention are major issues -- experts are now coining the term TRM (Talent Relationship Management) after CRM (Customer Relationship Management).

In this market, I am baffled that someone would think that employees are so easily replaceable. That premise would completely derail any positive work on corporate branding (in the quest for new clients, new employees or to retain valued [performant] employees).

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nicolechenelle
Member since 01/30/2007
Re: Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
01/30/2007 / 3:47 pm    #16

Totally disagree with the thought that marketing and HR are seperate entities. If we don't market our company as one that employees want to work for, we won't attain candidates that emulate the core values of our business. Employees are our customers in the sense that we want to maintain a core group of people that will produce consistent results and believe in the business. Think about it this way:

Example 1:
I am a customer that is trying your restaurant for the first time. The service was mediocre, the wait was long, and it was a little pricey. I don't feel that my needs were met nor what I paid into your restaurant did I receive in return.

Example 2:
I am a brand new employee to your company. My manager was not present to greet me on my first day, the quality of my training was mediocre, and I wasn't welcomed to the "family." I don't feel my needs were met nor do I believe in the business or my manager since I felt abandoned.

Start believing your employees are your customers and your business will change. They will not produce results if they don't feel motivated to do so. It starts with you.



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Jing
Member since 05/11/2007
Re: Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
05/11/2007 / 11:03 pm    #17

I think there are aspects that makes HRD & Marketing alike: yes, we do need to market the company not only to prospect applicants but at the same time to existing employees in order to attain the goals that the company has. While it is true that there is an aspect of Marketing in HRD, Marketing in itself is basically product/service-based. Marketing do not necessarily concern themselves with developing the people behind the product - that is the job of HRD.

I don't think that there is an overlap between these two Departments. HRD is focused on recruiting, developing and managing the people tasked to market the products/services of the company (their main goal is totally different from HRD's). I guess we have to stick on distinguishing the "doer" from the "act", so to speak. HRD is focused on the "doer" while Marketing is focused on the "act".

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ericka.browne
Member since 05/29/2012
Re: Thoughts behind developing the HR dept.
06/01/2012 / 2:09 pm    #18

Absolutely there are similarities between marketing and HR, just as there are similarities between ANY two departments in an organization.

However, HR is so complex and varied that it should never be lumped with another function. If an organization is too small to have a dedicated HR employee, they should find another solution. There are multiple small business HR consulting firms out there (mine included) who specialize in on demand help. A good consultant will work with you to help you recognize your limitations. You should be trained to identify situations where you need help and to handle some of the smaller day to day transactions. Often, there is already an employee in place who is trying to juggle the HR function and they can be trained to do so with effective backup. Other times, the owner or manager needs to be taught to identify situations that are potential liabilities and to know when to seek assistance. You may even be able to find a part time HR professional, either through a consultant or independently, who will work with you on a regular basis and help your business grow.

Every business needs HR, but not every business needs a full time HR person or department!


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